need some help.....

[diuneahma]

since jan until now , i had been involved a stupid ammo incident which should not involved in the first place. this SIB case is still ongoing. i did no wrong , and apparently i do not know why i failed the polygraph test perhaps first time doing kinda worried , which they told me i failed. and they even say they will put me into close arrest if i don't cooperate with them. whats there to cooperate? i really did nothing wrong in the first place , just happened to be at the wrong place and the wrong time.

what can i do to get out of this sticky situation man. haiz. does justice still exist in this world?

sorry for the rant. i am really depressed and do not know what to do.

:(

[cyberdog]

Umm... a bit hard for anyone to suggest anything since there are no details. But I guess for this kind of army problem, you are also not able to supply details in an open forum. Well, I can only say continue to cooperate with their investigation but be very firm not to admit or sign anything you do not agree to, no matter how they try to coerce you with scare tactics or whatever.

If you DO decide to sign a statement, I'd suggest that you write it out yourself so that it says exactly what you want to say. If they prepare a statement for you, object to any discrepancy or mistake NO MATTER HOW TRIVIAL IT SEEMS. Do NOT sign anything that is even a little bit untrue or inaccurate. Once you sign a statement, it is extremely difficult to argue later on that you did not mean to say that, or that what is in the statement is not correct.

Good luck!

[diuneahma]

thanks for the inputs bro.
but i wanna ask bros here , is there such thing as 72 days close arrest?
what the hell is that man?
i mean totally no human rights at all.
i feel very depressed , there's nothing i can do to fend for myself.
all arrows seemed pointing and directing towards me.
can a lawyer or MP help me with it? or SAF won't tolerate such stuffs?
but where is the justice?

thanks :(

[kyouta]

thanks for the inputs bro.
but i wanna ask bros here , is there such thing as 72 days close arrest?
what the hell is that man?
i mean totally no human rights at all.
i feel very depressed , there's nothing i can do to fend for myself.
all arrows seemed pointing and directing towards me.
can a lawyer or MP help me with it? or SAF won't tolerate such stuffs?
but where is the justice?

thanks :(

Close arrest is literally go into DB liao while investigations are being carried out ... during this period in DB, you are not considered to be officially charged yet .. once they are ready to summary trial or court martial you and found guilty, the detention will usually be back-dated to your 1st day of close arrest

[iswandi7]

hey bro, i had a friend who also kena this kind of thing which was totally not his fault somemore very near ORD date. Failed the polygraph test too and they even threaten to search his girlfriend house. I remember he did ask his MP to write plea letter...

[diuneahma]

Close arrest is literally go into DB liao while investigations are being carried out ... during this period in DB, you are not considered to be officially charged yet .. once they are ready to summary trial or court martial you and found guilty, the detention will usually be back-dated to your 1st day of close arrest

well...that pretty sucks man

:(

[diuneahma]

hey bro, i had a friend who also kena this kind of thing which was totally not his fault somemore very near ORD date. Failed the polygraph test too and they even threaten to search his girlfriend house. I remember he did ask his MP to write plea letter...

bro , what's your friend's case outcome?

btw asking help from MP , isn't a chargeable offence?

screw saf man , wasted my 2yrs and now probably gonna ruin my life.

[telefone]

Polygraph test just tests your body response (ie heart rate, sweat rate etc) when you answer question, not sure if it is admissible to court anyway. I dun think they can just convict you with just a polygraph test (duno truth of this, maybe I watch too much CSI).

It is your right to hire a lawyer when faced with such scenarios, if you get charged, either summarily or thru court martial, you can always get a lawyer (which the case will go to court martial or subordinate courts). As for MP letter, it may not do you any good, just to throw your case wide open to any scrutiny (ie they have to be very sure to put you in close arrest). Asking help from MP isnt a chargeable offence, just that bypassing the chain of command can be manipulated to be one. So go ask for help from your superiors, they would most likely say that this is SIB case and they cannot do anything, then you go to MP.

Close arrest = put you in DB for time being until you get charged, they need to have concrete evidence or have filed the charge papers to put you in close arrest, not anyhow one.

Editted: Justice is supposed to exist, if you are really innocent, a lawyer would be able to point out all the flaws in the argument. If you are being summarily trialed to be guilty (ie not by court martial), you can always demand for a higher authority to review the case, but if you are still found guilty, you will get a harsher punishment (nothing to be afraid of if you are innocent).

[diuneahma]

Polygraph test just tests your body response (ie heart rate, sweat rate etc) when you answer question, not sure if it is admissible to court anyway. I dun think they can just convict you with just a polygraph test (duno truth of this, maybe I watch too much CSI).

It is your right to hire a lawyer when faced with such scenarios, if you get charged, either summarily or thru court martial, you can always get a lawyer (which the case will go to court martial or subordinate courts). As for MP letter, it may not do you any good, just to throw your case wide open to any scrutiny (ie they have to be very sure to put you in close arrest). Asking help from MP isnt a chargeable offence, just that bypassing the chain of command can be manipulated to be one. So go ask for help from your superiors, they would most likely say that this is SIB case and they cannot do anything, then you go to MP.

Close arrest = put you in DB for time being until you get charged, they need to have concrete evidence or have filed the charge papers to put you in close arrest, not anyhow one.

Editted: Justice is supposed to exist, if you are really innocent, a lawyer would be able to point out all the flaws in the argument. If you are being summarily trialed to be guilty (ie not by court martial), you can always demand for a higher authority to review the case, but if you are still found guilty, you will get a harsher punishment (nothing to be afraid of if you are innocent).

thanks , you gave me the right to believe there is still justice in this world.

if i will to get a lawyer , who will bear the costs? Me or the SAF ?

Thanks

[telefone]

You bear the cost lah, SAF will only provide you with some 2LT who never stepped in court before to help you with the case nia. I was appointed as defending officer before, dun even know how to fight (trust me, no 2LT is trained to fight court case with the prosecutor who seems like a law trained civilian), but that case was clear-cut AWOL, so the NSF plead guilty, nothing for defending officer to do also.

[diuneahma]

You bear the cost lah, SAF will only provide you with some 2LT who never stepped in court before to help you with the case nia. I was appointed as defending officer before, dun even know how to fight (trust me, no 2LT is trained to fight court case with the prosecutor who seems like a law trained civilian), but that case was clear-cut AWOL, so the NSF plead guilty, nothing for defending officer to do also.

wth , i am paying to prove my innocent.
what the world has come to man. haiz.
i'm going to ask my oc about it. if he has no confidence in fighting for me , so be it , i get one myself. haiz.

[telefone]

Your OC, he also never fight court case before one, you think watch TV show ar, all so pro? I'm not sure about the procedure of SIB, but if never go court, your OC is the first person to charge you. If go court, also need to wait for S1 to appoint a defending officer. Anyway, court martial the judges are typically 1 MAJ, 1 CPT and 1 LTA at least, so if get a CPT to go fight case abit odd (lawyer > judge?) what I have seen is get 2LT go "fight" case one.

[diuneahma]

Your OC, he also never fight court case before one, you think watch TV show ar, all so pro? I'm not sure about the procedure of SIB, but if never go court, your OC is the first person to charge you. If go court, also need to wait for S1 to appoint a defending officer. Anyway, court martial the judges are typically 1 MAJ, 1 CPT and 1 LTA at least, so if get a CPT to go fight case abit odd (lawyer > judge?) what I have seen is get 2LT go "fight" case one.

haiz then how sia.
anyway they don't even have concrete evidence as well , just that lame test. the sib guy even threatened to close arrest me if i don't cooperate with him. i mean what's there to cooperate ? i did nothing wrong in the first place, i feel they want me be the scapegoat and confess to their liking.

[reddevil0728]

wth , i am paying to prove my innocent.
what the world has come to man. haiz.
i'm going to ask my oc about it. if he has no confidence in fighting for me , so be it , i get one myself. haiz.
the recent case of William Ding being accused of molesting 6 students then subsequently acquitted is also a case of him being innocent and engaged a SENIOR Counsel to fight for him.. sometime there is no choice... u hv to pay to clear ur name...

i feel sorry for you. but if u r innocent, paying money to clear ur name is better than being convicted of sth u didn't do... a chinese saying "po cai dang zai".

lawyers r trained to pick out tiny little details tt r false or wrong...

anyway all the best.

[iswandi7]

bro , what's your friend's case outcome?

btw asking help from MP , isn't a chargeable offence?

screw saf man , wasted my 2yrs and now probably gonna ruin my life.

i wasn't too sure about the ending cause i was also ORDing with him and was clearing leave and off but if i remember correctly he was put on close arrest for 3 days right after he failed the polygraph test, came as a shock to us too then he was found not guilty but have to pay for the loss item...

You really have to fight against what they throw at you but engaging a lawyer will prove quite a heavy burden financially

Don't tell me your case is they found unexpanded ammo in your possession...?

[diuneahma]

i wasn't too sure about the ending cause i was also ORDing with him and was clearing leave and off but if i remember correctly he was put on close arrest for 3 days right after he failed the polygraph test, came as a shock to us too then he was found not guilty but have to pay for the loss item...

You really have to fight against what they throw at you but engaging a lawyer will prove quite a heavy burden financially

Don't tell me your case is they found unexpanded ammo in your possession...?

close arrest 3 days right after failed the polygraph test?
i failed mine like 2months back. so far they do not have any concrete evidence except that lame test.

my story is like this generally speaking. i'm working in a ammo dump. Unit A return a particular ammo (X amount). but what i accounted for physically was (Y amount). my team mates were there , DOS or BOS whatever you called was there as well to witness it. knn say we or rather i did something illegally.

i have done so many ammo returns so far , reservist units are the most farked up.

[kyouta]

sianzzz 1/2 man ....

[pantss]

haiz then how sia.
anyway they don't even have concrete evidence as well , just that lame test. the sib guy even threatened to close arrest me if i don't cooperate with him. i mean what's there to cooperate ? i did nothing wrong in the first place, i feel they want me be the scapegoat and confess to their liking.

SIB polygrapher a fair indian guy?