[cccp]

By Shamino

An overclocker greatest fear is his cooling gets so cold that water starts to form. Learn how to fight condensation. Not for the faint hearted.

Others | Singapore Only

Wow!
Looks over kill to me.
What`s that for?? NL2?
I fill the socket like he shows, but that`s about it with a Vapo unit and no problems at all....so far anyway.
/me knocks on wood

[Shamino]

Heh, with no heating pad and the cooling I use on top of the humidity here, just doing that will get water all over my board in no time. As stated in the article, its for 100% safety, regardless of cooling used and humidity level.

all you have to do is fry one good OCing mobo and CPU with condensation and nothing will ever be considered overkill to you again when it comes to insulation and condensation prevention.

good stuff shamino

[Shamino]

Thx Weap. You're one guy I'd love to hear feed back from, cos we have a common enemy.... Condensation!

your anti-condensation tactics are very much like the ones that I use.

a few minor differences:
I tend to seal the inside of the zif socket with conformal silicone, then I add a neoprene plug coated with dielectric grease. I usually cut a small slit in the neoprene plug so I can slip the thermister thru it so it will make contact with the back of the CPU.

hardcore tactics -- these are used when I am going for supa-cold:
I add a nice thick application of dielectric grease all over the zif pin holes and the pins on the back of the CPU as shown in your guide but I get a little crazy on the next step...
once the CPU is inserted, I run a sealing bead of conformal silicone along the base of the socket and then another along the edge of the CPU. yep -- the CPU is silicone-sealed to the socket.

The back of the board gets about the same treatment but I sometimes follow this route:
2 coats of acrylic conformal coating
2 coats of silicone conformal coating (mg chemicals spray on type)
then I give the pin area on the back of the mobo where the CPU and n. bridge pins are located a coating of dow conformal coating - that is followed by a layer of neoprene.

I dont recall this being mentioned in the guide so here is a side note on silicones - all silicones are not safe to use on electronics. That is why I use Dow conformal coating or some of the other non-acidic types.
Several of the silicones that are on the market have acidic acid in them -- this is what give silicone that vinegar smell that will light up your sinuses if you ever get a good whiff of it.
The problem is that acidic acid can cause corrosion of dissimiliar metals where they come in contact with one another as the silicone is curing. Dissimiliar metals are in contact all over motherboards.
Most of the time, you can skate by with no noticable side effects but this can cause problems. It is often hard to tell which silicone is which until you pop the lid off of it and smell it -- the acidic acid is in small amounts and usually doesnt have to be listed on the contents -- although it sometimes appears with the warning that it will irritate eyes, nose and throat.

on to the CPU surface - we work that one pretty much the same way except I coat all of the little chips, bridges, etc. with nail polish, then I add one of my shims for increase contact area with the cooling solution and core protection. I have my fingers crossed for the next test on a tbred with the shim -- the last one with the barton 2500 netted a 7 C gain in cooling performance. I don't believe I will ever get quite that much out of a tbred but the design has been greatly improved since my first test on a xp2100...
After the shim is added, I coat the remaining surface of the chip carrier with dielectric grease. This can be a bit of a pain as arctic silver likes to bleed off of the core surface and into the dielectric grease - that is part of the reason I seal up all of the conductive points on the surface of the chip with nail polish -- I dont want anything shorting out from AS even though that is fairly unlikely considering the rest of the process. The rest of the area around the socket is then given the neoprene treatment.

other areas that get serious attention:
I usually seal the base of the AGP, PCI and DIMM slots with conformal coating and then I add a layer of Vapco cork tape (a.k.a. seal string) around them. They also get a dose of dielectric grease in the slots.

You did a very good job with the VR chips and the like -- you cannot neoprene over those -- if you insulate them it traps in the heat and they will fry themselves after no time at all. VR chips are probably one of the hottest, if not the hottest chips on any given mobo.

weapon tactics for dealing with VR chips and mosfits - I mount a small heatsink to them with thermal epoxy, usually after laying a thin coat of conformal coating over the chip pins (at this point, this is done to make sure no epoxy gets on the pins -- condensation proofing is after the heatsink is firmly mounted). After the epoxy is dry, I add a thicker bead of conformal coating all the way around the chip so that it seals the area around the base of the mini-heatsink that is mounted to the chip. Cork tape also works very well for this as you show in your guide.

Side note on mosfets - I have seen some try to add one massive heatsink to cover all of them. This is usually a bad move as the mosfits are different heights -- even if ever so slightly. The best method for heatsinking mosfits or any series of chips is to put one individual sink on each chip -- otherwise, some of them will have very poor contact with the heatsink.
heatsinks that work well for this purpose include the tweakmonster bga sinks or the sinks like the micro cool northpole sinks.

for those who havent seen them:
tweakmonsters:
http://www.sidewindercomputers.com/twrev4ra4.html

micro cool:
http://www.sidewindercomputers.com/michcokit.html

I like the micro cool sinks because they give you 2 that are sized just right for VR chips and the rest are perfect for mosfets. I mount them to the chips with arctic silver epoxy --usually with a slight dash of regular arctic silver added to the mix to weaken the epoxy just a little so I can get them off without destroying the board if I want them off.

other sinks that work well for this are the alpha pin sinks -- they are a little hard to find in the right sizes so they usually have to be cut to fit the chips.

your vid card insulation is right on the money -
about the only difference I see in the way you insulate them and the method I normally use is I add a bead of conformal coating into the mix right before the seal string is applied. I often coat the backside of the AGP card with the same method I use for the backs of mobos mentioned above.

Our waterblock and tubing insulation methods are virtually identical.

side note on conformal coatings - Dow Conformal coating is without a doubt the best I have used - it is gin clear when it dries so it is not unsightly like most of them. Also, it adheres to the mobo very well but it is not ungodly difficult to get off if you want it off.

danger den is the only place I know of at present to get dow conformal coating in a reasonably sized amount. Most suppliers want you to buy a fricken gallon of the stuff.

once again - good job shamino - I believe that is the most comprehensive guide to condensation proofing I have seen.

Originally posted by Weapon
. once again - good job shamino - I believe that is the most comprehensive guide to condensation proofing I have seen.

Yes!
Excellent job by both of you!



/me takes notes

[Shamino]

Thx Weap, that reply of yours is detailed enough to stand as a guide by itself
Yeah, I know about the acidic content of silicone, in fact all silicone I've come across have at least some acidic content. But I've used various brands before on PCB and they work fine, no corrosion results. But thanks for the reminder, I will add a heads up on that in the article.
Conformal coating, I have never used it before, nor seen it. I can't find them here locally. Do you know what is the original intended use of it? I was thinking that the PCB lacquer spray I use should be very close to it.
Actually silicone sealing works the best and sticking on neoprene before it cures will give you great protection. Its the fastest way to insulate, I can get the whole board done within minutes if I just use silicone. However, when you need to remove it, that's when the nightmare sets in. I cannot recall a more PITA experience than having to peel/scrap off silicone from the whole back and front of mobo....

shamino - the only place I know of to get dow conformal silicone is currently thru dangerden. More specifically, I believe this is Dow Corning 1-2577 Conformal Coating. It is very low odor and supposedly almost entirely non-corrosive.

here is the link:
http://www.dangerden.com/mall/Pelts/neoprene.asp

According to the uses section at dow chemicals, 1-2577 is a protective coating for rigid or flexible PCBs. It also lists electronic printed wiring boards as a possible application.

I suspect part of the confusion over this stuff is the label it gets depending on who you are talking to about it. It is commonly referred to as conformal silicone but many places that carry it will call it "flowable" silicone. I suppose that is a fairly accurate description as well. When you get the tube, if it is fairly fresh, it has the consistency of honey or maybe thick oil -- it will definitely flow -- if you set a motherboard on a level surface and add some to the inside of the zif socket, it will spread and even out making a fairly level coating over the PCB area inside the zif socket -- very easy to work with. It will work into small gaps and seal them air-tight by simply flowing into them. It is much different than other silicones that have a definite paste consistency.

Dow Chemicals might be able to help you locate it in your area -- here are the links to the 2 different types of 1-2577
http://www.dowcorning.com/applicatio...8151&type=PROD
http://www.dowcorning.com/applicatio...2424&type=PROD
^it contains a UV indicator so you can always check your coverage if you have a UV cathode nearby.

As to the acrylic lacquer conformal coating, it is much harder when it dries than either the spray on silicone conformal coating or the dow conformal coating. The silicone conformal coating varients always have a bit of an ever so slight rubberish feel to them even when they are fully cured where the acrylic lacquer coating hardens to a seemingly rock-hard coating with no elasticity.

There are some other silicones I have used a little here and there:

Dow Corning 748 non-corrosive RTV silicone -- this works well but I have only been able to find it in the off white color that sticks out on any motherboard and looks like h311.

GE 6700 non-corrosive RTV silicone -- this stuff is fairly clear but a bit to thick for my liking -- it does work well for gap filling though. One of the paste consistency silicones.

GE TSE399-C - I have not seen this one in a while but I think they still make it. elastomer type silicone - didnt like it as much as the 2577 from Dow....

[Shamino]

Updated the article with some new pics. Take a look if you're interested.

[atmguy21]

Originally Posted by Shamino

Updated the article with some new pics. Take a look if you're interested.

Hi, just wondering why I can't see any of the images in your insulation guide??? am I the only one?

Thanks!

Originally Posted by atmguy21

Hi, just wondering why I can't see any of the images in your insulation guide??? am I the only one?

Thanks!

nope i also encounter this problem too.

Originally Posted by atmguy21

Hi, just wondering why I can't see any of the images in your insulation guide??? am I the only one?

Thanks!

Nope, ur not the only one.
Last time server database crashed, alot of the 2-3 yrs of photos and stuff gone... poof

I believe admins are trying their best to restore everything.. (hopefully)

Anyways sham in taiwan now... even if you needed him he wun be here

those link contain no pics...

Omg ... dig up a thread 3 years ago ?!?!?

And ya, most pics were lost during the server breakdown + rollback. I believe insulation guides and sham's 'How to build a cascade' pics were missed most dearly.

Sorry for diging up such long thread... LOL

Coz I prefer to search before post a new thread

Is this the best sound card around?
Creative Sound Blaster X-Fi Elite Pro

Need a recommendation for a nforce590 SLI Intel Core 2 Duo ready motherboard that will be available in early Septmber.
Was planning to get DFI Lanparty nforce590 SLI but heard that DFI don't produce as good Intel motherboard compare to AMD. So any recommendatin. Need the TOP LINE motherboard. Thanks

upz

[wsohplvr]

this should make it sticky as it benefit alot of overclocker whho really cooled their systems. really no pic lar???

[Svan]

Yeah,it aint good those pics is down it...

[Shamino]

Good news!! The insulation guide pictures are back thx to tensor who had them cached on his PC!!

[farksy]

Originally Posted by Shamino

Good news!! The insulation guide pictures are back thx to tensor who had them cached on his PC!!

O YES !!!!! At last !!!

Whew. Thanks to Tensor and Sham for the pics back !